RE: Comics! #47 [Costumes]

Stephen Mayer: The first thing you think of when Superman pops into your head is the "S" and cape. Every artist wants to put their mark on Iron Man designing a new armor. And what would Captain America be without his shield?

More so than any villain, feat, or motto, it's a character's costume that sells them to a reader, after all, comics is a visual medium. The right threads can mean the difference between greatness and mediocrity.

What makes a really great costume?

We can start by agreeing that all of the mullets and pouches in designs from the '90s were pretty terrible, right.

Gregg Schigiel: I don’t know about all. I’ll cop to thinking Rogue’s costume in the ‘90s, the one with the brown jacket (and I believe the one that started the whole jacket trend) was pretty sharp.  Pouches though…those are harder to justify outside of Henry Pym during the run of WEST COAST AVENGERS when he had all kinds of stuff in those pockets that he’d use Pym Particles on. Not saying it was a great costume, but the pouches/pockets made considerably more sense. Though now that I think about it, Batman’s utility belt with pouches seems far more accepted and popular than the old capsule look.

I’d say there are a few considerations with respect to a great costume.

First, like a business logo or trademark, how does the costume speak to the character and what they’re about. Can you tell, looking at the character’s costume, what their deal is, be it powers, persona, hero or villain, etc.

Second, how does the costume look amidst other costumes? I remember Carlos Pacheco talking about working on team books and how you want the characters distinct such that if they were all in silhouette you could still know who was who.

Third I’d say comes from me as an artist: is it something that can be drawn again and again, consistently? This speaks once again to the iconography, but believe you me, if you’ve ever had to draw Galactus you’d see where I’m coming from.

And of course all of these things are relative to the character and their specific story. Someone like Cable is less about a costume, per se, as he is about being a one-man arsenal or guns and pouches. And in as much as those are at this point icons/relics of the ‘90s, somehow with Cable, it…works in a weird way. I mean, would Cable be a blip if he was a dude with a metal arm and glowing eye, really? Or the Fantastic Four, where their costumes are less about their individual iconography as they are about the team’s visual shorthand (though in silhouette they’re all very clearly defined, especially if you give Mr. Fantastic a bit of stretch).

I suppose another criteria could be “how realistic is it?”, but I’m less concerned with that, personally. I get it and I’m not one to ignore it, but for me in my hierarchy, it’s lower on the list. So when the arguments about Wonder Man’s safari jacket or Wonder Woman’s star-spangled bottoms or something else with the word “wonder” in it come up, I tend to go into “it’s a comic book/willing suspension of disbelief” mode.

So those are my basic means by which I measure a costume. Where do you come down on calculating quality of a comic character’s costuming?

Stephen: I'll give you Rogue's jacket, especially over the green-and-white hooded get-up she's wearing now (though I do like the long white gloves that go with the new look [were those a cue from the movie <I don't think so, cause wasn't she doing the XTREME X-MEN>]).

I like Pacheco's idea that every character should be identifiable in silhouette. The Umbrella Academy immediately popped into my mind, but I think that's more about character design as a whole than just the costumes. Still riffing off that team, I do like that Ba and Way incorporated the team logo into each outfit, which throws back to what you were saying about iconography. I think that's something that really stuck out about Jim Lee's X-Men, in use of the X's in all of the belt buckles, earrings, buttons, etc.

You wanna talk about a trademarks? How about Robert Kirkman using the Image "I" as the focal point for Invincible's original costume long before he was ever a partner in the business.

The this discussion is so timely obviously because of the announcement that as of the final story in Wonder Woman #600, Diane has a new costume to go along with a new continuity in a new reality. You already went into this in some detail on your own site. Care to paraphrase some of that for our readers?

Gregg: Very smooth segue there, Stephen, going from team designs to Jim Lee’s X-Men designs to Wonder Woman’s “new” costume, designed by Jim Lee. Smoooooth!

As of my writing this, I’ve not yet read WONDER WOMAN #600, so anything I know is from press releases and interviews online. But essentially, with the new writer J. Michael Straczynski, Wonder Woman’s origin/history will be getting an overhaul/retcon/reworking and with that a new costume. What I talked about on my site was much more self-involved in that I myself, after our discussion here at Re: Comics about Wonder Woman, started playing around with “how would I redesign Wonder Woman, given the opportunity?”, which is something I’m sure I’m not alone in having done. In fact, in reading about this recent stuff it seems many artists have wanted to redesign Wonder Woman’s costume…and over at Project: Rooftop they’ve had folks work up WW designs. Back when I was an intern at Marvel I sketched up a bunch of costume designs for folks (and maybe I’ll put those up one day, for kicks).

So basically I posted my sketches, which I think reflect the criteria I listed above insofar as costume design go, with a heavier lean on the superhero aspect of things, as I’ve become quite a proponent for superheroes looking like superheroes (and anyone who read our talk about WW knows I think she’s possibly best as a female superhero for young girls – which makes this new direction/costume/approach…I question it on that level, as yet another play at getting mainstream, male comic book readers to embrace this character).

Now I get the feeling you’ve got some thoughts and feelings about this Wonder Woman situation…and honestly, I have no idea if we’ll be of like mind here, so if we can slightly derail the specific talk of costumes in general, what’s your take?

Stephen: Your design does kind of fly directly in the face of what Jim Lee and JMS were saying they were going for when they were working on her new look. You kept the WW front and center, they downplayed it. You went with a modified bottom that mixed the original skirt with the classic star-spangled bloomers, they were with "practical" long pants.

My main point about the Wonder Woman situation is that a lot of people seemed to be prefacing their anti-new design opinions with "Now I don't read Wonder Woman" or "I haven't bought Wonder Woman in years". My guess would then be that a lot of these strings feelings were rooted in the Lynda Carter TV show or Justice League Unlimited, which harkens back to our discussion from RE: Comics! #19. Not that everyone isn't entitled to their own opinion, but for the last four years DC has been trying everything they can to bring new readership back to the Amazon to no avail, at least at Acme. They brought on a blockbuster team of Heinberg and Dodson to launch the title. They brought in a New York Times best-selling novelist, Jodi Piccoult. They promoted it in DC UNIVERSE #0 along with FINAL CRISIS (a hit), BATMAN R.I.P. (a hit), and BLACKEST NIGHT (a hit). They brought in the most successful female writer of the last decade, Gail Simone, and eventually her critically acclaimed partner from SECRET SIX, Nicola Scott. Nothing worked. So why not rebuild things from the ground up (when you read #600 you see that is it technically in continuity still). It certainly worked from where we're sitting. #600 has sold better than any issue since volume 3 #1!

Back to the general topic of costumes, what are some of your favorites?

Gregg: So to put a capper of sorts on WW, I actually did, between our exchanges, pick up and read #600. Storywise it’s falls under “too soon to tell”, though knowing how impatient I can be we’ll see how long I stick around (though it seems, like Blue Superman and Knightfall Batman, this won’t last forever – unless I’m wrong). But costume-wise, I was almost amazed at how quickly (the first two pages, in fact) costume details got “lost”, specifically referring to her ankle bits, which aren’t always there. Somewhat related, there’s always been talk of her “Americana” being irrelevant, etc. I thought the other day, instead of trying to explain it all, why not just say the eagle symbology is actually a griffin or Pegasus or other mythical creature? And for the stars you could explain those are representing the pantheon of gods, who on “man’s world” were once seen as constellations on the night sky. Done.

Another aside: In my Intro to Advertising class in college we were taught, out of the gate, that you can’t force someone to buy something they weren’t interested in buying. I think that’s the case with a monthly Wonder Woman book in the direct market. Given druthers I’d give up the ghost on this “DC Trinity” business, don’t sweat the monthly book, and instead put out three or four OGNs for younger readers, specifically the young girls who end up reading Twilight and later Jodi Piccoult novels.

And the “conspiracy theory” version of things: the new costume is a way to show a different WW, one who might be more “movie friendly/filmable”, that kind of thing. But that’s’ PURE conjecture based on nothing more than my own wandering brain parts.

How great would it be if, after all that, I said my favorite costume was the Deodato bra and bicycle shorts Wonder Woman from the mid-90s?

I’ve always liked Batman’s costume; it might be the overall best, even with pouches and without the yellow oval. It looks awesome, it’s iconic, I like drawing it...so to my measure it’s likely tops. By extension, the original Batgirl costume’s a good one, too.

In fact, a lot of the silver age DC pantheon have pretty great costumes – Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, etc. – maybe because those are the iconic “classic” superheroes so it’s a subliminal thing. An argument could be made that Aquaman’s costume doesn’t really tell you much about him visually, but it’s got the scales and the leg fins and stuff, so outside of colors it’s still pretty sound.

Captain America might have the best costume in the Marvel U (Hulk, while a blast to draw, doesn’t count as it’s not much of a costume, really). Though Dr. Doom’s able to make that cinched skirt look work, which is pretty outstanding. I’ve also always liked the original X-Men “school uniform” costume, the black and yellow. Interestingly, those same characters when they were X-Factor, before Angel became Archangel, also had cool, uniforms/costumes.

I’ve heard people argue that Spider-Man’s got the best superhero costume; I respectfully disagree. It’s a fine costume, but there are plenty, I think, that trump it. In fact, Spidey’s villains have some great costumes: Mysterio, Electro, Green Goblin, Shocker, Venom...

And when it comes to Superman, I think I like Captain Marvel’s costume better.

And then there are elements of characters or costumes I’ve liked. Firestorm’s fire hair/head deal…Iron Fist’s mask…Rorschach’s mask…Grifter’s mask…I always thought Azrael’s blade/fire/gauntlets were pretty wicked…

I’m sure I’m forgetting plenty. I’m trying to think of what I doodle when I’m doodling or what I used to draw a lot when I was in high school and college. I’m also trying to think of non-Marvel/DC characters (you know, that I myself haven’t created/designed), but I think of characters like those in MAGE, where it’s mostly t-shirts with symbols on them…I guess Madman’s a cool looking dude.

What favorites come to your mind? And then, after that, what REDESIGNS over the years have you liked or disliked? I can think of a few on both sides of that fence.

Stephen: Jermaine said on Tuesday when we first saw Wonder Woman's new look that not every artist would want to put in all that detail, and he was right from the start! At the same time, he said more people wouldn't want to draw Thor's new costume with all the chain mail, but it's remained pretty consistent for almost 3 years now (though if the preliminary designs are any indication, they're moving away from that in the movie).

For personal favorites:

I think it's cool that despite everything that she's been through and all the redesigns that the rest of her team has had, that Kitty is still wearing a variation of her original costume from 1979, which was pretty much what the rest of the New Mutants were wearing at the time. Some things are still classic.

I like the new Cap Bucky costume, which would have been the last really controversial redesign. I'd be remiss if I didn't raise Adam the First Man's concerns that Bucky has a canteen on his belt that he's never taken so much a swig from. Unnecessary accessories.

I like the new Mockingbird costume a lot. He gauntlets are really functional, he glasses are a nice substitute for her old pointed mask and the buttoned torso is really classy.

I like Emma Frost's costume from NEW X-MEN, not because I thought it was really sexy or anything, but because it was the complete opposite of practical or functional, especially when the rest of the team was wearing Kevlar and leather to more closely resemble the movie.

On the other side of the street, Cosmic Boy's costume with the metal bumps that could double as weapons for him to manipulate with his magnetism was a nice touch. I know Jermaine always says that no one except Alex Ross likes the Supergirl costume with the low-cut collar and the Superman emblem on the left side, but I dig it the most of her outfits, certainly more than the tiara in the 80s or the current mid-drift look. I think Huntress is pretty awesome.

In the "hated it" category I would go with:

Sue Storm when she had the "4" cut out over her boobs.

All of Simone Bianchi's redesigns for the Astonishing X-Men when he was taking over for Joss Whedon and John Cassaday with Warren Ellis. I learned to deal with a lot of them as other artists, namely Terry Dodson, began to work with them, but it was enough to get me to drop Astonishing an issue into the new run.

Juggernaut in Ultimate X-Men.

My battery is running down, so I'm gonna throw it back to you before I think of any more "don'ts.”

Gregg: What about Kitty when she was Shadowcat, hmm?

I agree, the new Mockingbird costume’s a good one. I didn’t dislike the old one, but this one works well…though an argument could be made that Darwyn Cooke’s Catwoman sort of “did it first” on the goggles/functional elements tip (though both can look good, it doesn’t need to be a contest all the time!).

Tim Drake’s Robin first costume, designed by Neal Adams, might be one of the best redesigns of an official “classic” costume. Talk about turning underwear to pants, that costume nailed it. (and look at that, Batman and Robin top both of my lists so far)

Pasqual Ferry’s Black Knight from the HEROES FOR HIRE book in the late ‘90s was a pretty excellent look. Modern without being overdone.

Guy Gardner’s Green Lantern costume, with the jacket and big ol’ boots, while not a redesign, per se, is still visually very cool and a different look than the classic. And the Mike Grell, post-“Long Bowhunters” Green Arrow, with the hood over the Robin Hood hat, that was pretty boss. In general, the redesigns to my mind that have really worked have been the smaller, effective tweaks (and I’d say the Bucky Cap falls under that, as does the Wally West Flash way back when, with the white-out eyes, distinct belt, and shinier suit material (as opposed to the new West Flash, which seems over worked with bevels and such which doesn’t play to the simplicity/re-draw-ability aspect of things)).

As much as I like the classic Vision look, Byrne’s pale yellow version was an interesting change.

The modern Black Canary’s a good one, too.

And you mentioned the Legion, and I’d say their costume’s during the Chris Sprouse run, I believe designed by Adam Hughes, were a nearly perfect tweak and redesign making them all distinct but still work uniformly as a team look.

And the black Spidey suit’s always been a fave, though credit to that one should go to the redesigned Spider-Woman of that era, which was a pretty sweet costume.

On the less than great side:

Over time, I like the Aquaman with the asymmetrical metal armor/arm/hook less and less. Elongated Man’s had some bad costumes.

Some of the Iron Man armors over the past 10 years have been a bit overdone to the point where artist to artist it gets inconsistent.

Also not a costume, the cat-man Beast has never worked for me.

Kyle Rayner’s costumes also haven’t been winners.

I’ve never found Justice/Vance Astro’s costumes all that compelling.

Wolverine hasn’t had a good costume, like a genuinely cool costume, since the brown & tan suit. It could be argued that in general, the X-Men have had real costume issues over the past seven years or so.

And nearly any costume that popped up in the ‘90s wasn’t very good, but the worst might be the very chain-heavy Thor costume pre-Heroes Reborn.

And regardless of it’s alleged silliness, at least Luke Cage wore a costume. His look now, t-shirt, jeans and knit cap…that’s a terrible costume, if we can even call it that, and maybe my least favorite current look for a superhero; it wouldn’t be THAT hard to turn his old costume into something sleeker/more modern.

I think I could probably do this back and forth listing forever, though at a certain point it’d get boring (if it hasn’t already). So following in line, the next question, I think, unless you were thinking something otherwise: Who would you want to see redesigned? Which characters out there do you think could use a tweak or a refresher? It can be as simple as what they've done with Firestar, returning her to her original costume, or a more dramatic “I want to see an overhaul of BLANK”.

Stephen: John Stewart doesn't really have a distinct look as a Lantern. Guy has his jacket and Kyle has his different mask and uniform, but John is still rockin' the same leotard as Hal.

Luke Cage could use a consistent look other than the street clothes. They teased him getting a permanent costume way back in NEW AVENGERS ANNUAL #1 in...2005 and nothing ever came of it. Even if it was just giving him a staple accessory back like the chain belt. Or the tiara. Hey, Nick Johnson, briefly serving as designated hitter for the Yankees at the beginnings of the season, came out every at bat to the sound of Miley Cyrus's "Party in the U.S.A." because his daughter loves it. Maybe baby Danny Cage will dig the tiara so Luke will wear it so she knows he's thinking about her.

The bottom of Ms. Marvel's costume could be dropped down to meet her hip bones and she could lose the hooker boots.

Even though she just got a new look for her new series, I'd like to see Batgirl change over to a different costume. That could be more of me just hoping for a different character to wear the outfit as well.

(An aside - a weird inconsistency is how some artists still draw Spider-man with the webs under his arms in modern stories)

I need to give props to the new Steve Rogers: Director of Whatever outfit. I wasn't digging it at first, but it has really grown on me through the first two issues of SECRET AVENGERS, the mix of his classic costume and Nick Fury's S.H.I.E.L.D. outfit.

In the end, it's probably a good thing I'm not outfitting comics' best and brightest.

Gregg: I submit that John Stewart’s costume is different enough – he’s got the wrist band/bracelets and the green is the minimal over-the-shoulder type deal…plus, no mask.

Clearly, I couldn’t agree more that Luke Cage is most in need of a redesign…or just a design for that matter.

I’ve mentioned Justice also. Rage could benefit from a new costume (and maybe a new name, too…you know, if people are itching for more Rage). I feel like Psyclocke could be refreshed a smidge (but I liked her pre-ninja, armored look), and way back when I’d worked up some doodles and such for Dazzler, who, truth be told, I’m not even sure what costume, if any, she’s wearing these days. And Bane. I’ve never liked the design of Bane. For such a “big” character when he was big, he looked (and still looks) quite lame.

And if there was an “iconic” character to take on, it strikes me that Zatanna’s “magician suit” could be streamlined in some way (though compared to her tiara/cape look, perhaps we should take what we’ve got).

I say all of this knowing full well that to date my major contributions to comic book hero costuming have been the WHAT IF? Secret Wars kids (who we at one point referred to as the Secret Warriors ages ago; seems that’s a different thing now), and Namorita’s white/netted costume from the re-launch of NEW WARRIORS in 1999 or thereabouts (which clearly didn’t take…though, neither did Namorita, I suppose). So I could be wrong. I know in my younger days I did a bunch of redesigns of characters who, now older and “wiser”, I’d just as well leave alone.

The classics are sometimes classics for a reason…and there’s something to be said for old-school spandex superhero/supervillain costumes.

Below to the left are Gregg's Wonder Woman re-designs, which can seen with descriptions at Hatter Entertainment.com. To the right are my digital inks and colors for those sketches (done without Gregg's input).

Gregg Schigiel is a cartoonist, illustrator, and writer. He's worked as a penciller, writer and editor for Marvel Comics and an illustrator and cartoonist at Nickelodeon. In addition, he’s in various stages of cooking up new comics-related works…unless he’s too preoccupied actually cooking. Check out his website at Hatter Entertainment.com.